The person I am talking about is Dr. Palaniappan Manickam aka Dr. Pal, a board-certified gastroenterologist from Sacramento, California, who is also a YouTuber. He’s created various videos targeting Indian netizens, most of which are decent, but not without adding his own twist of misinformation, that are considered unscientific - some of them have been debunked here and here (auto-captions available).

I can’t help but think why YouTube would immediately remove videos that spread misinformation, but only when it affects the western world, but not the other part? Clearly, this guy’s video is in English, he participates in collaborations with other misinformation-peddling YouTubers - the consequences of which a few percent of the billion people in India have to face - which is still, a lot of people? Sure, you can complain that it is the responsibility of the Indian government - but they are themselves in this business of pseudo-science. When there’s no one taking responsibility, I can’t help but feel helpless about the lies people will hear.

Edit: And to why this matters, there’s an on-going case in the Supreme Court of India. Said “guru” sold Coronil kit, and mocked dying doctors. What did the kit do? It had high concentration of lead. Dr. Cyriac Abby Philips fought against it - and the system tried to punish him.

  • मुक्त@lemmy.ml
    24·
    7 months ago

    That last example is extremely bad and reeks of bad faith argument.

    And there you go, someone found it out real quick - it was actually a bad faith argument, all the way from the beginning.

    Calling an argument bad faith or good faith is unscientific. In fact, it is what church used to do to science before science became popular.

    This is why I did not respond to that guy. It touched his nerve, when I declared traditional Indian medicine as unscientific.

    I didn’t actually go to your links and didn’t know till now that you are targeting Indian medicine. The form of your argument itself is a fallacy called appeal to authority and it hardly matters what you are targetting or what you feel about it.

    He then decided to create a loaded comment, and if it wasn’t already evident, their comment is fallacious - it deviates from the topic I had originally intended to discuss - by directing the blame on modern science being controlled by scary “illuminati” and “weeping angels” in corporate suit and boot.

    Lol. Your words, your emotions. Not mine.

    Too bad his BigPharma scare tactics don’t work in the Indian context, and also makes him look like a QAnon weirdo to the western folks over here. Mechanisms of ayurveda, unani, siddha and homeopathy fail in front of modern science with simple theories like the atomic model theory, or Avogadro constant. But hey, his favorite party bought the Ministry of Ayush in India, why would he let a ‘brown sepoy’ like me insult the supreme leader?

    Now that you are the one spouting conspiracy theories close to your heart, you are legitimately the one using scare tactics.

    According to his logic, an uneducated charlatan in saffron robe, who looks like a “pious” guru has the utmost right to insult dying doctors and sell cow urine (I am not making this up, his company “Patanjali” sells it for real). And his Coronil kit - which I’ve previously mentioned in the post, has destroyed the livers of many of the unfortunate ones due to heavy metal poisoning, who could not afford to buy the vaccine - and now, their financial burden has increased tenfolds. Yet, there’s no accountability. This scammer earns crores of rupees, fooling the citizens of not just India, but also Nepal, Bangladesh, Bhutan, and also hippies from the west - USA, UK, Germany, you probably know how much the reach is. Vulnerable people consume pseudo-science garbage prepared by shady gurus and godmen.

    Patanjali is not my company, nor do I follow Baba Ramdev or consumed his coronil kit. But I can assure you, damages done by them are dwarfs compared to … well, have you read about what Johnson & Johnson did to infants?

    And why does it matter that I’ve made this post? Because a board-certified doctor established in California is promoting pseudoscience - and mind you, none of the universities in the US or Europe recognize any traditional snake-oil medicine degree, maybe except for homeopathy. How is he not held liable for fooling people on the other side of the world?

    See, appeal to authority again.
    And somehow you believe that I am making bad (faith) arguments.

    • LalSalaamComrade@lemmy.mlOPEnglish
      5·
      7 months ago

      Now that you are the one spouting conspiracy theories close to your heart, you are legitimately the one using scare tactics.

      I created this post to discuss about the ill-effects of traditional medicine, which is clearly known to not follow systemic scientific methodology. Traditional medicines are based on the concepts of balance of dosha (vata-pita-kapha), primal elements (fire, water, earth, air, space) and humor (blood, phlegm, black bile, yellow bile). Now that’s ayurveda, siddha and unani for your respectively. Likewise, homeopathy is based on the concept of “likes get cured by likes” - therefore, the harm-causing agent is diluted to many parts. There’s also other traditional medicines, witch doctors and faith-based healing, from Asia, Africa and even Europe. None of these align with the modern scientific theory - knowledge of which is accessible to the general public. Now, if you don’t understand basic science, I am not going to bother, you have all the free time in the world to cross-examine it yourself, starting with fifth grade concepts of chemistry - that’s all you’ll need, not even physics or biology.

      And somehow you believe that I am making bad (faith) arguments.

      You chose to be a bad actor starting from the initial comment, deliberately choosing to misdirect a flaw that is not a part of science, but corporate greed and capitalism. It is because profit over safety overshadows the concern for the well-being of another human, and has nothing to do with modern science itself. In the example you’ve mentioned about Johnson&Johnson, instead of safer substitutes, they chose to use talcum power, which is always contaminated with asbestos. Be it Ponds, Nivea or Cinthol, all of these are contaminated with asbestos, and they’re still being sold.

      Now, what you’ve done is:

      • misdirected the conversation from traditional medicine to modern medicine
      • misdirected the consequences of capitalism to modern medicine

      You’ve engaged in red herring fallacies multiple times. And therefore, there is no need for me to engage in any further conversation with you.

      But I can assure you, damages done by them are dwarfs

      Except that they don’t. Pharmas are held accountable for medical mishaps, so are doctors and nurses. Not these quacks pretending to be guru or godmen.

      As far as it comes to my “appeal to authority”, the FDA, FSSAI, CDSCO or NHS have a team of highly skilled scientists, who have spent years on their specialization. They are questioned by other governing bodies of health, they are answerable to the public, make decisions based on rigorous scientific evidence from lab data and clinical trials. They also have to go through peer reviews, most of which is done in well-respected journals. There are smart people out there who question them regularly. My trust is not blindly on that institute, but rather their entire eco-system, that allows me to see for myself how they have reached to a solution that benefits human society.

      • मुक्त@lemmy.ml
        12·
        7 months ago

        I created this post to discuss about the ill-effects of traditional medicine, which is clearly known to not follow systemic scientific methodology.

        You wanted to trash talk about traditional medicine without acknowledging that modern medicine isn’t following science either.

        Traditional medicines are based on the concepts of balance of dosha (vata-pita-kapha), primal elements (fire, water, earth, air, space) and humor (blood, phlegm, black bile, yellow bile). Now that’s ayurveda, siddha and unani for your respectively.

        Modern medicine has the parallel concept of homeostasis, which is even more generalized.

        Likewise, homeopathy is based on the concept of “likes get cured by likes” - therefore, the harm-causing agent is diluted to many parts.

        Homeopathy is not traditional medicine. In fact, it is younger than allopathy - the mainstream modern medicine.

        There’s also other traditional medicines, witch doctors and faith-based healing, from Asia, Africa and even Europe. None of these align with the modern scientific theory - knowledge of which is accessible to the general public.

        Most of modern medicine is inaccessible without paying a doctor, and the research behind it is behind paywalls and not accessible to general public either.

        Now, if you don’t understand basic science, I am not going to bother, you have all the free time in the world to cross-examine it yourself, starting with fifth grade concepts of chemistry - that’s all you’ll need, not even physics or biology.

        Question. Are you an Indian, or have recieved education in India?

        You chose to be a bad actor starting from the initial comment, deliberately choosing to misdirect a flaw that is not a part of science, but corporate greed and capitalism.

        So you understand that modern medicine is not a scientific enterprise, but one of crony capitalism that has overtaken academic institutions. Good to know.

        It is because profit over safety overshadows the concern for the well-being of another human, and has nothing to do with modern science itself. In the example you’ve mentioned about Johnson&Johnson, instead of safer substitutes, they chose to use talcum power, which is always contaminated with asbestos. Be it Ponds, Nivea or Cinthol, all of these are contaminated with asbestos, and they’re still being sold.

        And, this is worse than coronil.

        Now, what you’ve done is:

        • misdirected the conversation from traditional medicine to modern medicine
        • misdirected the consequences of capitalism to modern medicine

        How is it my problem that what you are shilling for doesn’t stand my scrutiny?

        You’ve engaged in red herring fallacies multiple times.
        And therefore, there is no need for me to engage in any further conversation with you.

        s/ Your scientific majesty, I have sinned against the church of modern medicine. Please condone my blaspheme against the divine doctrine of science. I’ll atone by trash-talking against the evil pseudo-science of traditional medicine. /s

        Feeling better?

        But I can assure you, damages done by them are dwarfs

        Except that they don’t. Pharmas are held accountable for medical mishaps, so are doctors and nurses. Not these quacks pretending to be guru or godmen.

        Lol. Remind me. Who has been held responsible for covid-19?

        As far as it comes to my “appeal to authority”, the FDA, FSSAI, CDSCO or NHS have a team of highly skilled scientists, who have spent years on their specialization.

        Not too long ago, it took these specialists 27 years to decide that a widely diatributed vaccine had a fatal side-effect and should be discontinued immediately. Also, have you read the time frame of justice in Johnson & Johnson case?

        And the flip-flops by qualified doctors and their institutions on whether alcohol is bad for health or good… before that smoking, X-rays.

        They are questioned by other governing bodies of health, they are answerable to the public, make decisions based on rigorous scientific evidence from lab data and clinical trials. They also have to go through peer reviews, most of which is done in well-respected journals. There are smart people out there who question them regularly. My trust is not blindly on that institute, but rather their entire eco-system, that allows me to see for myself how they have reached to a solution that benefits human society.

        There was this video (now removed and heavily censored even in FOSS circles) which showed one-by-one some newspaper clippings about percentage efficacy of covid vaccines declared in published research. It started with a headline declaring 100% efficacy of vaccines, followed by another with 99%, than 98,… 97… and so on, ending literally at 1%.

        What do you think? Were these figures were sent to newspapers before peer-review, or after?

        Personally, I don’t care.