• Miles O'Brien@startrek.website
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    17 days ago

    I’ve heard plenty of people try to say WOLFENSTEIN glorifies nazis

    I’ve had one idiot tell me ANY media that paints them as competent or successful is glorifying them. And setting anything in a world where they succeeded and progressed technologically instead of collapsing is basically saying Hitler’s world view is valid.

    I still don’t know how to respond to that beyond “if you think the nazis were incompetent you don’t know history, and if you think showing a future where fascism took hold is unrealistic I have some bad news for you”

    It’s fantasy, and specifically a fantasy in which you get to go on a massive killing spree against some of the worst people in history, how you can somehow pull “this game is making these guys look good” from that, I’m not sure.

    • rhombus@sh.itjust.works
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      17 days ago

      It should be noted that a lot of their blunders later in the war can be traced back to Hitler (or one of his sycophants) getting involved and overruling far more experienced Generals, many of whom were not party members. It could also be argued that the economy they set up, while impressive given the state of Germany post-WWI, was an entirely unsustainable war economy that relied very heavily on slave labor. That’s not to say they were completely incompetent, but they did vastly overestimate their own abilities and made many mistakes as a result.

      • Miles O'Brien@startrek.website
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        17 days ago

        Indeed, they made plenty of mistakes, otherwise they would have won the war.

        But it’s less about whether they could have sustained their empire afterward and more people trying to say that portraying them as such is “glorifying” them or propping them up in some sort of idealistic way.

        • rhombus@sh.itjust.works
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          17 days ago

          Indeed, they made plenty of mistakes, otherwise they would have won the war.

          Therein lies the problem, because even if they somehow executed an absolutely perfect strategy they would not have won the war, not in the long run at least. I agree that Wolfenstein doesn’t glorify them since its reasoning for them winning is outlandish sci-fi technology, but a lot of media that assumes they could have won is glorifying, even if indirectly.

          • captainlezbian@lemmy.world
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            15 days ago

            Yeah they were an empire run like and by meth addicts. Terrifying to face, shockingly clever, and headed directly to destruction with the only question being whether they or someone else landed the killing blow on them.

            These were not hyper competent tacticians, it was a society that hyped itself into a blood frenzy, convinced of their own superiority and that they’ll be destroyed if they don’t destroy everyone else first. That’s a terrifying threat, but so’s a meth addict with a knife and paranoid delusions.

            They were hemorrhaging competence through their Nazi bullshit. Yeah they had some people like von Braun, but they lost people like Einstein (and special shout-out to Fermi who defected from Italy because his wife was Jewish). Additionally their behavior in held territory actively fostered partisan resistance and encouraged fighting to the death.

            And that’s ignoring the fact that they broke the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact while at war with France and England and at war in Africa and while leaving Italy to defend itself. The Soviets were a force unto themselves having been the only army to trounce Russia in centuries.

    • SplashJackson@lemmy.ca
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      16 days ago

      If they didn’t have at least a few competent nazis, they wouldn’t have been such a threat; WW2 would be over in a month. I’m sure there were even competent Talibans and North Koreans.