• ThereRisesARedStar [she/her, they/them]@hexbear.net
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    1 year ago

    Okay, well, I’ve studied everything from all sorts of marxist tendencies to syndicalism to anarchism, to classical economics, and I think you’re either using terms wrong or have the wrong idea. Can you define your terms or rephrase what you mean?

    I apologize if this is too blunt.

    • dartos@reddthat.com
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      1 year ago

      So I understand total capitalism as an entirely market driven economy with no government influence

      And total communism as an entirely planned and government prescribed economy

      And socialism as some of the economy is market driven and some government planned.

      • Awoo [she/her]@hexbear.net
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        1 year ago

        Viewing it entirely in economics is incorrect. All of the above can be done under capitalism. The key difference is not what form of economics are employed but which class controls power and puts the resources of the state to use.

        The capitalist state is a state where capital owners hold power and use that power to exploit more capital.

        The socialist state is a transitionary state in which the workers have seized power and use the state to repress the bourgeoisie and put resources to their own use.

        The communist state is what occurs when capitalism is entirely defeated, all nations are socialist, conflict is eliminated and material abundance is achieved, at which point states start to stop existing as the resources within them that are put towards repressing the bourgeoisie through violence are put towards other things when there is only 1 class in society.

      • ThereRisesARedStar [she/her, they/them]@hexbear.net
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        1 year ago

        Okay, so extremely abridged, here is what seperates capitalism from socialism.

        Under capitalism, private individuals own the means of production, distribution, and sustenance. Workers are forced to go to one of these private individuals and exchange their labor power for a wage. Capitalist profit is generated by paying the worker less than their labor power is worth but enough to sustain workers as a class. The workers are prevented from using the means of production without entering into the wage labor model through the threat of physical violence.

        Under socialism, the means of production are managed in common, somewhere along a sliding scale of the people working in a workplace and democracy having control of how the workplace operates depending on the system

        You’ll note that these both can operate within markets, and both require at least some planning.

        Video: we need a mixture of capitalism and communism is bullshit

        Book: Explaining why markets are bad

        Edit: this is ignoring the way the state plays a role in these economic formations but Im trying to keep it simple.

      • AkariMizunashi [comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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        1 year ago

        To add on to what others have said, the concept that capitalism is just letting the economy do its thing with no government influence is really mystifying and innaccurate. Capitalism requires immense support from a state (some sort of apparatus with a monopoly on force) in order to guarantee and enforce property rights, contracts, the collection of debts, ensure stable currencies that are widely accepted as payment etc. Just because the state is overwhelmingly working on the side of people with capital to preserve and accumulate that capital, doesn’t mean it isn’t working.

      • GarbageShoot [he/him]@hexbear.net
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        1 year ago

        For the record, I think before this your definition of capitalism was defensible, but then communicating clearly would require using the term “liberalism” to describe the government.