You’re not wrong!

I could but I’m not the person who cares enough to want to look into it. I’m telling the person who does that doing so is a good idea.

I think we need to start reframing it as some sort of combined right to freedom to speak and freedom to not listen. Right now the majority of the time I hear someone talking about freedom of speech is when they want the authority to force people to listen to them.

Yeah the sad reality is that the entire situation is a mess and there isn’t really a good guy to root for beyond innocent civilians caught up in it. (Though you can certainly argue about who is the worst bad guy… That doesn’t make their enemy not also a bad guy.)

I expect you need to look in the Lemmy.World moderation log to see to what degree lemmy.ml users were or were not problematic (I’ve no idea either way.)

It’s a good question. Hopefully the Beehaw admin team will reach out to the Lemmy.World admin team to have a discussion about exactly what the LW admins are trying to achieve and under what conditions they will be ready to reopen submissions. Though even if they do have that conversation there’s no guarantee that that will match up with what the Beehaw admins are looking for in order to refederate. It was made clear from the Beehaw admins at the time though that they didn’t have any issues with LW in general, only that toxic disruptive people were using the open sign-up of LW to create accounts to go cause trouble over at Beehaw (outside of the general LW userbase) and that they hoped to refederate once better tools were in place to address those disruptive users. Could be that lines up pretty well with LW’s goal to wait until they have better tools to address malicious bot accounts before they reopen signups.

Also… Exactly how much of a contribution are we losing from people who care deeply enough about piracy to want to leave Lemmy as a whole rather than make a tiny amount of effort.

Like… If they aren’t people who want to pay for things or put any personal energy into them… How will we notice they have gone?

Why not just hang out on the Lemmy instances that actively support piracy?

The fuck are you talking about? Lemmy.world has defederated from other Lemmy communities that are about piracy. Those Lemmy communities that are about piracy still exist and are part of Lemmy.

Are you entirely certain you understand what the difference is between Lemmy and Lemmy.World?

It’s a bit like the difference between the United States and San Fransisco if that helps at all…

Noone’s stopping users from using Lemmy.World here. You just can’t do stuff related to piracy in the process. There’s a difference between “you can’t do X here” and “you aren’t allowed to be here.” If you’re incapable of engaging with a social space without bringing piracy into it that’s a you issue.

I mean… That seems like an argument for equipping people with better literacy skills given that any competent reading of 1984 would turn you away from fascism.

The conversation gets a bit scrambled/broken up by disruptive/toxic people but this is a comment chain on lemmy.ml two weeks ago about SQL issues and challenges in getting the Lemmy Dev team to address them that might be worth reading:

https://lemmy.ml/comment/2100093

Two directions at once. It wasn’t long ago I saw someone very irate that these SQL issues needlessly exist, and that they had repeatedly tried to tell the Lemmy devs that they are an issue and been shrugged off about it. So the Lemmy devs who have decided that not acknowledging the problem is the same as the problem not existing are definitely partly to blame.

Mostly though the person to blame is whomever is a using whatever weaknesses exist to try to disrupt Lemmy.World because of their own personal bullshit.

The issue for the commenter you replied to is that they think that laying the blame for a specific incident at the personal responsibility of the people directly involved somehow means that the diffuse responsibility of wider society in creating conditions wherein those incidents are guaranteed to regularly occur is somehow no-longer relevant.

All that seems to matter in their assessment is who gets the finger pointed at them when the problem happens, not, why does the problem happen and what can we do to avoid it?

The driver can be personally responsible for their own failures without that alleviating the responsibility of good decision making by those who are responsible for ensuring people are able to live their lives safely.

It’s so much safer to have an accident in a modern car than one from even just a few decades ago. There’s no amount of better-than-what-we-have levels of driver awareness that can make up that gap.

It’s always seemed strange to me that free-speech absolutists seem to argue that what people say doesn’t have much effect on the world.

If it’s so insignificant an act… Why are they so invested in protecting their right to do so without any constraints?

I think it’s the least worrying of possible stances protecting possession of CP

I’m not sure I’m willing to force my brain into considering the relative shadiness of different arguments for child pornography. It is a worrying stance, splitting hairs over whether he could have said something worse or not seems like an unproductive discussion.

I think it’s possible to recognise that valid concerns are hijacked for other purposes without needing to take a stance against the concerns themselves though.

IE I think child porn is a bad thing and we should work as a society to address it in a multi-faceted way. I also think that using that as a way to gain legal capabilities to infringe on people’s rights in a way that is not actually related to the prevention of child porn is also a bad thing. Those aren’t mutually exclusive ideas. Though I did see the claim that he was 16 at the time he wrote it, so it’s possible he worked that out later?

Such a weird stance to take and to make a point of wedging in there. I thought perhaps on reading I’d find he’s being misinterpreted or taken out of context but he’s very explicitly like “child porn isn’t an issue and we should do nothing about it.” Quite a worrying position for him to take.