Check out the instances that have defederated with the radicalized ones? I hang out in 2 Lemmy instances, still working to finish migrating from here to the other.

I’m not ok with the death penalty for serial killers and rapists, and I think the laws we have now (if they were enforced) cover for corruption.

I have a rule. No matter how shitty the rules, nobody should die for playing by them. Ex Post Facto protections are a hallmark of preventing justice from being another name for authoritarian persecution. Of all people, it tends to shock me that Communists struggle to see that when they are the first to back extreme versions of ACAB-attitudes.

I know rich people who are… just fucking rich and that’s it. Lottery, good job. Smart little investment. Most rich people don’t destroy lives directly for monetary gain. Is there an indirect effect between wealth distribution and suffering? SURE, but holding someone accountable by violence for something they indirectly effected when it was legal? I just can’t see it no matter how they frame it.

It’s like COVID opposition. When we didn’t have laws against their bullshit (COVID spreader parties?) it is unjust to now go back and pass a law to punish there behavior merely because it caused hundreds of thousands of extra death.

I have never had a problem with self-defense. My problem is how often some folks talk proactive violence against a fairly vague definition of “bourgeoisie”, or merely “the rich”. And (I’m sure you can understand why I’d have a problem) that some folks talk like I’m in the receiving-end category of proactive violence.

I know it’s not popular here, but I hold Communists to the ACAB-rule. For me to consider respecting a member of ANY group where a substantial percent is advocating for violence against myself or those I care about, or proactive violence at all, I need to know that person strongly and openly opposes that behavior and is part of trying to fix it. If you do that, I’ll happily have a beer with you.

I don’t think Communists and Tankies are the same thing, but a lot of Tankies are pulling “no true scotsman” even here about advocating for violence against (for example) liberals.

Yeah, it’s the bit where I’ve gotten threats on my life.

Sorry, cited the wrong dictionary I guess. https://www.dictionary.com/browse/social democrats . I’m surprised at Webster disagreeing with everyone else. I figured every dictionary would agree. The dictionaries using my definition are:

Collins, Dictionary.com, Oxford English Dictionary, Brittanica, Cambridge, Wictionary

So I’ve got mud on my face, citing the only source that disagrees with me.

But fine. If it really matters that much to a couple people, then there’s not a term for what I am. I’m not a DemSoc because I don’t realistically think we will achieve complete socialism in my lifetime and I think that’s OK in the short term as long as we improve things, and actually preferable until people actually want socialism. That doesn’t make me a capitalist.

So are you or are you not advocating for the murder of Notch? If so, I will oppose you at all costs as I would any extremist. If not, then what exactly are you disagreeing with me about?

Social Democrat is “a supporter or advocate of a socialist system of government achieved by democratic means.”

That’s what a demsoc is. Social democrats support capitalism with social programs.

You should tell Webster they’re wrong. And Wikipedia. And Brittanica.

By their definitions, a Socdem’s insistence on using democracy at all costs is what differentiates between them and demsocs.

By why is it so important for you to insist everyone use your nonstandard definition of the terms? Also, your calling us “succdems” tells me exactly everything I need to know about your permission. If I’m not willing to murder people, I’m less than human to you enough to be given a silly nickname.

“Tankies don’t have a soul and they’re going to kill you first so it’s okay to let the nazis kill them actually” I’m a REAL leftist :D

At this moment, you’re on the wrong side of the “First they came for” poem because you’re the one rejecting the Left.

You have my sympathy. Even when I was actively involved with pro-LGBTQ movements, there were people marching for rights that that didn’t respect bisexuals.

Interesting. I’m not a Tankie a tall. That’s kinda the point.

with no gender and no country

Wow. How many people would you murder to preserve your precious gender identity?

I’m a Social Democrat, who used to be a Democratic Socialist. The Right sees me as a Communist and McCarthyism kicks in. Did you hear about the “Physical Removal” movement? A meme-like movement about giving the Left helicopter rides to the middle of the ocean. I lived in a farm town where 40% of the voters were overcompensating for the Right not being able to win a rural area by being very outspoken anti-left.

And then, the Left. When I considered myself to be a demsoc, I tried to hang out in LSC on reddit. Not sure if you know it, but they eventually got banned for all the death threats coming out of there. There is an attitude around some percent of Communists that non-Communist lives don’t matter. They might be a minority, but they’re outspoken.

That was what got me to realize the flaw in being a demsoc, and I shifted laterally (NOT to the Right as several people like to pretend) to Social Democrat. Then I got more death threats because Communists have a hard-on of insisting Socdems are literally the same category as fascists.

I DO think it’s weird that I’ve gotten and get death threats over my views, and I understand why so many people my age have given up having any views at all and just become “I just vote a party and go about my day” folks that are part of the problem.

And yet nobody minds the aggression of capitalism and the right on anybody other than well off cishet white men 🤔

Really? NOBODY minds that? I can’t be pro-LGBTQIA without believing that any possible system except strict communism will work? You’re talking black & white thinking, the same as the anti-LGBTQ extremists. There are miles of Left, even far left, that aren’t Authoritarian Communism (that isn’t authoritarianism but does involve Dictatorship of the Proletariat and the exertion of authority. I was fucking THERE, marching there, when they legalized gay marriage in my state, one of the first in my country. I had a good friend be in the first 50 gay marriages in my state. Does it not count if I’m not a Tankie? All my friends who were out there risking their safety against the Catholic alt-right violence in my state didn’t count?

Look, you touched a nerve here, and I’m trying to take a breath. Maybe I misread you. Are you genuinely trying to say that you can’t oppose far-right violence without being a Communist? Or (perhaps just as bad) are you trying to say that if I’m not ok with violence against queer and transgender individuals that I need to be ok with violence against all liberals?

And I’d like to quantify that I got hit this morning with a dozen replies putting me in the “liberal them” pile, basically agreeing that if I don’t strongly support violence against the non-Communist supermajority, I’m a liberal and have no right to call myself a leftist. I hate the tearing down of the pacifist Left I keep seeing.

How many leftists do you have to execute to earn your colors?

How many leftists do you have to execute to earn your colors?

And I bet you’re fun at parties. Please oh great psychic, tell me more about myself?

And actually, I do know the difference between demsoc and socdem. The formal definition for Social Democrat is “a supporter or advocate of a socialist system of government achieved by democratic means.” That we are constantly painted as “filthy liberal” for wanting to respect the will of the majority is a disappointing and disgusting lie. And the ONLY people who accuse socdems of being fake leftists? TANKIES. Who are not, by any meaningful definition, more left than those of us with a soul.

The only way I’m not a leftist is if your version of leftism says “fuck people, freedom, or democracy”. In **your ** version of leftism, are you ok with being the 1% ruling by force against 99% who hate you? Think very carefully before replying to that.

Which “silent downvote” are you talking about?

And how exactly did you conclude I’m a “weird person” in this scenario? Obviously I’m arguing with weirder people, we’re talking about tankies.

EDIT: Just looked through your post history and cannot seem to find any I downvoted.

One of the problems with arguing with people online is I tend to assume people are arguing in good faith.

One of the things that stop me from arguing with people online is when they accuse me of arguing in bad faith because I have facts they don’t like. From such no-name sites as Harvard.

EDIT: For future reference (and 2 points):

1. Front page is a popularity contest, and does not bear any weight to the truth of a matter, or even expert consensus of that matter.
2. Front page can differ between people in search engines, and these results came from the front page on mine.

So in summary, the only reply that would not have been “bad faith” in your eyes would be to concede the argument. So you got it. Congrats, you were right about every opinion you’ve ever had in your life.

My problem is with people who exploit the labor of others for profit. No billionaire earns that last zero without causing harm

I’m mostly on board with you. But I’d like to cite “Notch” (of Minecraft) as an example of someone who earns the last zero without causing harm. Pure fucking luck? Sure. Should be part of a society that will redistribute his wealth? Definitely. Perpetuating violence for profit? I dunno what he’s doing now, but he wasn’t when he got that billion.

The thing is, you can’t participate in capitalism without either extreme ignorance or at least a little complacency towards that violence.

As a demsoc, my whole position is described by stopping the violence from within. There are parts of capitalism that are palatable, though it will inevitably end up in a horrible state if left to stagnate. But if I had to choose between universal healthcare and welfare for all and a violent revolution that fewer than 10% of people actually want, I think the former is a better option. And despite me having a lot of the same goals as the groups seeking that revolution, they still terrify me.

You exist in this system, you’re a part of it. You’re either ok with others doing violence on your behalf so you can have a bit of chocolate in your breakfast croissant, or you aren’t.

Please understand that this terrifies me. The black & white no-middle-ground thinking is the foundation of so many atrocities. That idea that you cannot improve capitalism, or that a “better capitalism” is still identical to “others doing violence on your behalf so you can have a bit of chocolate” is the kind of madness that leads to authoritarian regimes. I’m against capitalism in general. I’m also against a smallish number of people with guns replacing capitalism with something else.

I don’t see a peaceful remedy to this problem.

Can you acknowledge that a state that over 90% of humans would be happy with is still within “the problem” for you? If not, please understand that THIS is why most people incorrectly batch Communism with Fascism. If so, please understand why you having a problem is the problem and you need to learn to differentiate between the Bidens and the Trumps. Biden is “the other side”. Trump is satan.

We can talk about theory, about “yeah just organize and vote” until we’re blue in the face but the reality is that system is actively rigged against us.

Let me be clear about this. I’m part of the same category batched as “progressives and leftists”. WE represent about 9% of the population in my home country. That part is unfortunately Democracy working as designed. Not rigged. WE should represent a larger percent of the population, but unlike Billionaires and Church Leaders, we can’t seem to find common ground between Far Left V1 and Far Left V2.

But you’re right. With less than 6% of people in your country supporting your particular views, voting is not the answer. But, IMO, neither is violence. If 6% of the country manages a coup, I will not be happy no matter how much of their views I agree with. Because that’s an authoritarian regime.

We are actively rocketing towards a very bleak future and every passing day without cataclysmic change only pushes it down the line. And every day we push it back, it increases in magnitude.

Everything you say here I agree with. But if we can’t get the support for “very bleak future” under 90%, then you’ve failed even if you temporarily succeed.

So frankly, if someone is going to commit violence on my behalf, I’d rather it be directed at the problem than directed at my peers in the working class, wherever they may be.

My wife’s best friend is Petite Bourgeoisie, she owns a breakfast diner near the local project. She makes less than her workers in all but the most perfect months. I have no problem with her. I have problem with anyone who will make her choose between surrendering her freedom not to answer to an ownership structure (even a communal ownership structure), or “going up against the wall”. Ironically, it is the part of me most sympathetic to the goals of communism that support her attempted independence from private ownership. I have, on many occasions, been told she would be in line for death or disenfranchisement. Do you understand my reservations? I PREFER an imperfect capitalism if that is the only alternative. And you might not have meant it, but you came across as saying that’s the only alternative, and by way of violence.

Well, i can’t speak to your experience but I’m a commie who doesn’t dig a forced central planning authority. Or death threats even!

Well that’s a breath of fresh air. That’s very different from what I’ve seen. I do have to point out what I said elsewhere, that I feel Communists have a responsibility to speak against violent communism, the same way “good cops” can only be good if they speak out against bad cops. (I know how most Communists feel about police, but at least I hope you can appreciate the intent of the parallel)

For my part i get called a “traitor” and such by libs often, simply for criticizing the DNC et al.

I think using the word “traitor” in a situation like that is terrible. I do take it personally if someone treats the DNC as “just as bad as Trump” after he managed to cause an unprecedented amount of devastation between his immigration policies, “pay me” COVID handling, and open hatred of marginalized groups and “great people on both sides” support for groups like the KKK… But as much as I am disappointed when people put even a moderate like Biden in the same boat as him, I wouldn’t use the word “traitor”.

But your point stands, no death threats.

I would love if I met more Communists who are more willing to have constructive conversation with the other Leftist groups, instead of the ones that group all of us in a wide-net neoliberal basket that includes everyone from Bernie Sanders to Adolf Hitler. So, thank you :)

Full disclosure, as a leftist I avoid those far-right areas like the plague. I’m quite certain I would receive more far-right death threats if I did not.

Great! But you have no evidence to support your argument

I cited two pieces of fairly substantive evidence in reply to someone who cited a single article. If you don’t think that is reasonable escalation of evidence, we can stop now.

Once again, we know cellphones are detrimental to learning. This is not a matter of schools failing to adapt to new technology

My cited references contradict that. More importantly, your article contradicts the “we know” part. Let me quote your reference: "Research from Sweden, however, suggests little effect of banning mobile phones in high school on student performance. "

My references made clear argument that this is indeed a case of schools failing to adapt to new technology. I even quoted a relevant quote to you.

No it doesn’t. It says that no phones mean better learning. You are missing the forest for the trees.

“My findings suggest an improvement in educational productivity due to the NYCDOE’s ban removal”. I understand there’s a double-negative in that reference, but the cited study’s findings suggest that “yes phones mean better learning”. You might disagree with it, but please reread it so that you do not misrepresent it.

Lots of research has been done on this, and a small number of people can influence a large group. Look at “wave” studies for more info.

Sure. Please demonstrate that your claims are correct. Until then, and especially because you seem to have failed to comprehend the involved references, I will wish you luck.

Calling minimum acceptable classroom behavior “picking yourself up by your bootstraps” is absurd. It’s like saying that you can’t expect people to not talk at the theater because that’s just asking too much of people.

I’ve lived an entire life of watching people blame the bulk of individuals for failures by authorities. I have become reasonably skeptical of any claims that “it’s everyone but…” the decision-maker.