• astraeus@programming.dev
    62·
    6 months ago

    Laughable that as the article begins to talk about publishers the Atlantic paywall shows up. Definitely not another reason why the web is dying.

    • Scrubbles@poptalk.scrubbles.techEnglish
      26·
      6 months ago

      So freaking tone-deaf lol. I was just getting into the article and agreeing with them and then the paywall showed up. THATS THE PROBLEM YO

    • interolivary@beehaw.org
      5·
      6 months ago

      Well, for many publishers the choice is either ads or paywalls. The fact that people feel entitled to get everything for free is a part of why things are going to shit, because ads bring with them a whole slew of perverse incentives (eg. optimizing for ad views instead of content quality)

      • astraeus@programming.dev
        7·
        6 months ago

        The paywalls restrict the flow of quality information, which happened before LLMs started scraping the web. If you don’t have money to spend on all of these news subscriptions you aren’t allowed to educate yourself. It’s class-based gatekeeping, plain and simple. They could tactfully include ads, but no one ever tactfully includes ads. They introduce pop-ups, fullscreen banners, interjections every 25 words, or the best is the articles that are just slide shows that take you through 30+ webpages.

        Edit: I’d also like to point out that this article already has an ad at the beginning. So they are still making ad revenue even if they aren’t giving you complete access.

        • interolivary@beehaw.org
          3·
          6 months ago

          no one ever tactfully includes ads

          This is pretty patently hyperbole; I’ve run into many sites, including news, with non-intrusive ads.

          Whether it’s class-based gatekeeping is another matter entirely. For-profit media employees have to eat too, and in the current economic system most can’t just give people access to content for free without any sort of monetization mechanism and with a voluntary subscription, because that’ll very often lead to income dropping off a cliff. Unfortunately people are very loath to pay for online services except for some more niche cases like the Fediverse where instances run on voluntary donations – although I’ve seen a couple of moderately popular instances struggling with upkeep being higher than what people are willing to donate (and it’s not just services either; open source developers face similar issues.) In some countries we at least have public broadcasting companies, although eg. here in Finland the current extremist right-wing government is looking to reduce its funding by quite a bit and possibly even entirely dismantle it if they get their way.

          While I definitely agree that news should be available for free, railing against a for-profit publisher’s paywall is, frankly, myopic; like it or not, in the current system even content producers have to make a living. None of us really has a choice in whether we want to live in this system or not

          • astraeus@programming.dev
            1·
            6 months ago

            Advertising, by design, is intrusive. It’s fighting for space in your mind whether you want it to be there or not. We can shelve that topic because it’s a side item here.

            The difference between making a big deal of nothing and being completely on-topic is that the article itself goes into the responsibilities of publishers and platforms, how they have a responsibility to make the internet a better connected, more human-friendly place. You don’t see massive sources of misinformation locking down their content, but you will definitely see potentially credible sources of information doing that. It’s counter to the premise of the article entirely.

            I don’t believe it’s myopic at all to point out that it’s backwards to expect the internet to thrive when quality information isn’t readily available. Sure you can use a different search engine, seek out free content and resources, all of which require an in-depth dive to find anything worthwhile.

            The topic of this post is why the internet is dying, and while I recognize people need to make money to eat I think these news media sites are more than capable of providing for their employees with or without a paywall. Megacorps like Google, Meta, and Microsoft having control over what gets the most clicks is definitely contributing to rapid enshittification. Especially when they’re sending most traffic to articles that either have a paywall or a steady feed of bullshit.

              • astraeus@programming.dev
                1·
                6 months ago

                Linux is a prime example of quality that isn’t paid for. No one forces you to pay for Linux, you can of course support the maintainers and donate, but it’s not a for-profit endeavor.

                • interolivary@beehaw.org
                  2·
                  6 months ago

                  How do you propose these “open source journalists” make a living? Corporate grants or straight-up corporate jobs just like a huge chunk of Linux development, landing us right back at square one, if not even somewhat behind it? At least independent media exists nowadays, but if the assumption is that all news has to be freely available, like acastcandream said that’d just lead to journalism being very effectively locked out as a career path for anyone who’s not independently wealthy or somehow able to make people actually donate or pay for a subscription despite the content being available for free – and that hasn’t worked out too well for most publishers so far.

                • davehtaylor@beehaw.org
                  2·
                  6 months ago
                  1. The largest code contributors to Linux are corporate contributions
                  2. Regular people who contribute to OSS do so as a passion project, as a hobby, and have other unrelated jobs that pay the bills. Those people still have to make a living, they’re just not doing it from their software contributions. Journalism isn’t a hobby and you can’t work a day job and still be an effective journalist. News orgs don’t come together as hobby projects.

                  I’m not defending advertising. I hate it and think it’s ruined the web. I’m just addressing the analogy here wrt Linux.

  • kbal@fedia.io
    35·
    6 months ago

    The end of the web as I knew it happened 28 years ago, and 20 years ago, and 12 years ago.

      • t3rmit3@beehaw.org
        3·
        6 months ago

        I legit have been considering buying a minidisc player, just for the sheer cool factor of them. Sometimes truly special form is lost as function evolves.

        • Ben Hur Horse Race@lemm.ee
          3·
          6 months ago

          minidiscs should have been the standard CDs became. no one would have considered holding a 3.5" floppy disc gingerly by the edges and placing it into a tray to read. the case is critical.

          however, the industry realized people were replacing their scratched cd’s, so they’d sell 2, 3 of the same disc to the same person. Source: worked at a record store in the hight of the CD age when mini discs were all but essentially snuffed out

          • megopie@beehaw.org
            2·
            6 months ago

            I mean, maybe not the mini disk specifically, but yah, a cartridge system for CDs would have been better.

            Mini disks are super cool but they’re a lot more materially demanding than a CD, CDs being just aluminum and plastic, where as a minidisc has some truly wacky elements in it’s make up to get the magneto optical and curie point to work.

            • Ben Hur Horse Race@lemm.ee
              2·
              6 months ago

              I mean you clearly know way more about it than me… but yeah some kind of carrier/cartridge protecting the disc and we’d probably still be using CD-W-RW’s

              • megopie@beehaw.org
                3·
                6 months ago

                The mini disk was a truly weird system. Half way between a cassette and a CD. CD used a laser to to reflect off bumps(or dyes in some varieties) on the disk to get a signal, and a cassette would use a metal head to detect magnetization along the tape to get a signal.

                The mini disk used a laser to read the magnetization around the disk. Essentially the magnetism would change the polarity of the light as it bounced off, and by measuring what the polarity of the reflected light is, the device got the signal.

                Writing to the disk was also wild, as unlike the cassette, the magnetic field of the disk couldn’t just be changed by putting it next to a strong magnet like. Instead, it had to be heated up before the magnetism could be changed, this heating was done with the laser, and was very precise compared to a cassette’s method. This meaning way more information could be squeezed on to the disk than on a cassette.

          • pbjamm@beehaw.orgEnglish
            1·
            6 months ago

            There were several attempts to chain CDs to caddys, kind of like Laser Disc none stuck.

            There were also Zip (250MB) and Jazz (1GB) Drives that were pretty amazing for their day. Unfortunately media was expensive. Jazz was pretty great for backups though.

            • Ben Hur Horse Race@lemm.ee
              3·
              6 months ago

              money! just production costs I’d say. I took a 3D design class forever ago and they made us get Zip disks, and if you wanted to work on stuff at home that meant you needed a zip drive. My dad (RIP) bought me a drive and I’m somehow still touched as it was a reasonably big purchase at the time for a slacker 18 year old doing 3D design at a community college

              Not a 3D designer now, finally went back to college for something else in my 20s… anyway, rip my dad and rip the zip drive, they were cool. 100mb wow

    • LoamImprovement@beehaw.org
      1·
      6 months ago

      No discredit to R.E.M. but my world’s been ending for over a decade and I feel like dogshit constantly. Nobody told me the apocalypse would be heralded by the dumbest fucking cryptobros and AI prompters the world’s ever seen.

  • emmie@beehaw.org
    19·
    6 months ago

    The AI will become utter garbage, mark my words. It will complete the downfall of the internet though first. What will come after internet? Hard to say maybe we will exchange culture in VR? Probably at some point every kind of forum will be unreadable from automated marketing and propaganda. Reddit already is. Lemmy is too small… yet but it will crash even harder if it is noticed by the wrong people. 2 years tops to enjoy this medium

    Though I admit I am somewhat of a doomer inclined so maybe there is a way to create alternative that cannot be poisoned

  • Steve@communick.newsEnglish
    11·
    6 months ago

    Kagi AI generated summary. (I had to do it)

    The web has become an extraordinary public resource, but it is now at risk of being destroyed by the advent of AI. Generative AI models like large language models (LLMs) are disrupting the traditional relationship between writers/creators and their audiences. LLMs can synthesize answers to queries, cutting out the original creators and leading to the rise of “large language model optimization” (LLMO) - manipulating AI outputs to serve special interests. This threatens to degrade the quality of information on the open web, as creators may stop producing content for the public commons. To preserve the web, search engines need to act more like publishers, platforms need to nurture human creative communities, and AI developers must recognize the importance of maintaining a healthy web ecosystem for their own benefit.

  • emmie@beehaw.org
    6·
    6 months ago

    I wonder if the nft tech could be used to mark everything real with a proof of authenticity. Then those things that aren’t on the chain would be considered suspicious and you would have automated green border around any content that is authentic and red for the outside of the blockchain

    • Sonori@beehaw.org
      21·
      6 months ago

      How could that help at all? Seeing as the blockchain would have no way of telling the difference between human and Ai text, and if you could find a way to automatically verify that in way way that was so efficient you could expect all the text uploaded to the internet you could just run that program locally and not be beholden to people paying a fee to post anything to the internet.

      • emmie@beehaw.org
        1·
        6 months ago

        I think there needs to be a verification process to get on blockchain. Some kind of reputation system maybe

        Akin to certificates. Problem is poisoning though or other manipulation. It will be really fun problem to solve

        • Sonori@beehaw.org
          11·
          6 months ago

          I can’t imagine any sort of verification system not being completely overrun by bots/people on fiver/ mechanical turk immediately unless you tied it to meatspace IDs in an know your customer sort of way, in which case you would definitely need a central organization to do said verification, which eliminates any possible need for a blockchain as said organization can just use a faster, far cheaper, and most importantly for this application editable database.

          More to the point, no one doubts that an article published by one organization was secretly published by another, but rather that they secretly used AI in the writing process, which also negates the system because that organization is never going to tell you which articles are done by AI, and any sort of reporting system for the entire organization or a specific author is just going to be immediately and constantly used to review bomb.

          • emmie@beehaw.org
            1·
            6 months ago

            Yeah it is very difficult problem, fun stuff

            I’d give a lot to reap the fame of the one who solves it but haha I am well below the skill level

            • interolivary@beehaw.org
              2·
              6 months ago

              Well, whatever the solution to this problem is, I’m fairly sure “put a blockchain on it” isn’t going to be it. Distributed ledgers do potentially have some uses, but using them to carry “proof of humanity” information doesn’t make much sense

      • emmie@beehaw.org
        4·
        6 months ago

        So again deleted my comment accidentally omg. I very like this idea. It’s burdensome but every phone already has simillar scanner. I wonder about privacy though. Can it be anonymised like monero?

        I imagine it as an optional feature and then verified people can opt in to only show other verified humans in some kind of next gen web similar to fediverse. Then two layers form naturally one of verified humans and the good old internet Wild West.

      • ChallengeApathy@infosec.pubEnglish
        3·
        6 months ago

        Because it’s a centralized system owned by a sociopath billionaire gathering unchanging, personal details about swaths of the population using ye olde “for the greater good” adage as the justification. You’d have to be a special kind of fool to go along with it.