Nearly two-thirds of Democrats say President Joe Biden should withdraw from the presidential race and let his party nominate a different candidate, according to a new poll, sharply undercutting his post-debate claim that “average Democrats” are still with him even if some “big names” are turning on him.
The new survey by the AP-NORC Center for Public Affairs Research, conducted as Biden works to salvage his candidacy two weeks after his debate flop, also found that only about 3 in 10 Democrats are extremely or very confident that he has the mental capability to serve effectively as president, down slightly from 40% in an AP-NORC poll in February.
The findings underscore the challenges the 81-year-old president faces as he tries to silence calls from within his own party to leave the race and tries to convince Democrats that he’s the best candidate to defeat Donald Trump. The poll was conducted mostly before Saturday’s assassination attempt on Trump at a campaign rally in Pennsylvania. It’s unclear whether the shooting influenced people’s views of Biden, but the small number of poll interviews completed after the shooting provided no early indication that his prospects improved.
No they don’t.
They wanted Joe to not run again in the first place, and for the DNC to nominate someone else.
Don’t get me wrong, biden’s administration has done amazing work. We are just so focused on the stupid horse race that we’re not actually picking a leader.
The main difference between Joe Biden and Donald Trump is then Biden isn’t a raging narcissist. He has surrounded himself with competent people who are quietly doing a great job of running the government.
They wanted Joe to not run again in the first place, and for the DNC to nominate someone else
Nope.
We wanted fair and open primaries were progressive leaning states didn’t have their delegates stolen and every state gets a chance to vote before it’s over rather than 4-5 states handpicked by the DNC because they vote moderate.
That increases turnout in the general.
What happened was undemocratic and depresses turnout helping Republicans
The main difference between Joe Biden and Donald Trump is then Biden isn’t a raging narcissist
If Biden wasn’t a narcissist he’d put the safety of the country over his own ambition to stay in the White House after it took 36 years to get the big chair.
Biden implemented many progressive ideas, this is why “left” media (owned by billionaires) are actually attacking him.
Even Bernie is for not replacing him.
The whole campaign to replace him feels very astroturfed and is based on the first debate ignoring everything else.
Progressives have not abandoned Biden because Biden has basically promised them whatever the fuck they want for the next administration so long as they stand behind him. Even AOC is saying she’s with Biden.
I’m not even mad. I would consider taking that gamble as well. But the Biden administration knows that if the progressive wing of the party truly leaves them they are fucked
Right…just like he promised Elizabeth Warren a cabinet spot if she dropped out of the 2020 primary and backed him instead of Bernie.
I couldn’t disagree with your last sentiment more. If there’s one last bastion of bipartisan compromise in this country, it’s to work together to keep progressive leftists out of office at all costs, because they are the only true threat to the massive amount of capital that’s been stolen by the ruling class over the past 40 years.
If you are a progressive democrat in the house you sure as shit are going to try to get the president to owe your bloc. That’s politics man. Can’t say I love it but it at least makes sense
Yeah I’m not arguing that, you’re right. I just don’t think they’re effectively using their leverage.
That said, their hands are tied for now, because if any of them said anything at all about Biden stepping down before it actually happens, the entire narrative would shift to “progressives undermine Dem chances, it’s all their fault.” Establishment dems are so eager to learn the wrong lessons in these situations…conveniently allowing them to never have to evolve their politics.
Yeah no kidding re: establishment learning the wrong lessons
Yes then they did the math on Senate votes and realized they need Liz and Bernie to stay put to have any shot at taking control from McConnell.
Those seats would have been filled by republicans?!?! lol k.
Massachusetts isn’t as safely blue as people assume. Bernie in the Senate is far more helpful than having a cabinet roll.
The whole campaign to replace him feels very astroturfed and is based on the first debate ignoring everything else.
I wouldn’t say it’s astroturfed when people like Adam Schiff are calling on Biden to step aside. I also wouldn’t say it’s just about the debate as Biden has met with people in congress to try and persuade them that he’s the guy and they’ve come away less than impressed after those meetings.
That’s how astroturfing works though. You create false narrative like everyone thinks that until people join through a bandwagon effect.
I was watching the debate and my takeaway was it was a horrible debate, moderators did a horrible job, trump was energetic but was just rambling (especially in the 2nd half), and completely ignored questions asked. Biden was anemic, made some blunders, but at least made sense.
By your definition pretty much everything could be described as astroturfing. I also don’t think it’s accurate to describe this as a “false narrative” either, you’re into “don’t believe your lying eyes” territory.
Not everything, astroturfing is creating a fake grassroot movement. This was purely manufactured by media (including left leaning ones) whose owners fear Biden pro middle class policies. They know that Biden doesn’t have anything to lose when implementing them like for example tax increases for people making $400,000+. Other, younger candidates are more likely to be more mendable.
I think you’re gaslighting a little. Why try and tell people their impression of Biden’s debate performance and NATO press conference isn’t genuine and instead is “purely manufactured by media”?
That’s just not accurate. I know what I saw.
Biden implemented many progressive ideas
Many?
How about top 3 that Biden did?
Not just legislation that he signed, three things that we got because Biden has the big desk and not literally anyone else with a D by their name.
Lmao this is what you came up with? Most of these aren’t “progressive” especially when 4-5 are pushing more military or escalating trade wars. Plus are you really trying to say this is a major win
Biden scraps Trump’s paint scheme for Air Force One
Plus producing more oil than ever is on there as well. Like that’s not a win that’s completely counter to helping climate change.
That’s some dumb thinking. You can’t just shut down oil production without first developing alternatives, you would tank the entire economy when you were recovering from a recession caused by the pandemic.
You need to first invest in developing infrastructure, make sure the majority will start using alternative fuel and then you reduce production.
Nowhere in my post did I say he needs to shut down oil production. I understand that’s not feasible. But we don’t need to be increasing it and giving out more permits for drilling than Trump did during his presidency.
Counting that as a win is crazy, that was the point of my response.
This coupled with the tariffs on importing cheap EVs are both clearly not wins for fighting climate change.
And before anyone feels the need to comment like they do on anything critical of Biden, yes trump would be worse. But less bad isn’t going to stop the sea levels from rising.
Nope, because most of that is legislation Biden has taken credit for.
How about top 3 that Biden did?
Not just legislation that he signed, three things that we got because Biden has the big desk and not literally anyone else with a D by their name.
If you can find 3 things on that list let me know
If not, you just proved my point, that everything on that list would have happened if it was another Dem in office.
Yeah, I didn’t point it out earlier, but you were already changing goalposts in the prior response.
President is not just signing bills, but also leading Democrats, and negotiates with Republicans to get bills passed. How do you think the bill to help Ukraine passed in April? Johnson just had a change of heart out of nowhere
This is why trump accomplished very little legislatively, he basically doesn’t know about making compromises.
President is not just signing bills, but also leading Democrats negotiated with Republicans to get bills passed
Expect Biden said publicly and repeatedly that even changing a Dems mind would be impossible so trying would be a waste of effort…
Do you disagree with Biden on that?
If so, why do you still want him as president when he thinks your reason for why it should be him is not his job?
CTRL+F “executive order”
- (farming) …executive order directing agencies across the government to promote competition and take on monopolies.
- (pot) … executive order directing the Department of Health and Human Services to conduct a review of all available cannabis science
- (AI) … executive order starts the clock for more than a dozen federal agencies to figure out what the gold standard for “safe, secure and trustworthy” AI handling should be for their own operations
And that’s just the little stuff you didn’t notice – not the big stuff like the SAVE Plan for student debt (also an executive order) or caregiver support.
I guess that is besides the point, which seems to be redefining everything Biden has done as ineligible. I’m guessing you’d say Regan gets no credit for ending the Berlin Wall since HE didn’t tear it down.
So…
Your three examples of Biden accomplishing something…
Is three times he told federal agencies to “look into” things?
No examples of him actually doing anything?
That’s the best you can find?
Quick edit:
Can we skip ahead to where you say no president has power to do anything?
Then I point out how that undermines Biden’s entire campaign and means the only thing that’s important is picking a popular and charismatic candidate and Biden is both historically unpopular and while charismatic for an 81 year old that’s not a very high standard?
We are just so focused on the stupid horse race that we’re not actually picking a leader.
This ‘stupid horse race’ is all that stands between us and four more years of Trump
It’s clearly not the only thing, but so far only a Republican has tried one of the alternatives.
Speak for yourself. I’d like Biden to step aside.
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How far away is the actual election?
Replacing him would be best, but you’ve got to start building a case for someone new in that time.
Building the case in a world where political marketing machines create the narrative in half a day’s time and spread it through all the corporate channels.
Not only that, they don’t even have to target 3/4 of the country. They just need to hammer Wisconsin, Michigan, and Pennsylvania.
We vote in November
oof ur probably fucked mate
Honestly it won’t matter who has the (D) next to their name, the or comes already decided, we just won’t know till November what it is.
Biden’s response:
Yay polls.
I love polls. They’re so great. Always accurate.
They’re likely accurate. Anecdotal, but many of my very liberal friends have lost confidence in Biden’s ability to lead the Dems to victory, and many people I know who are ‘swing voters’ are convinced that Biden is senile. That’s not getting into the conservatives I know, who I would not regard as having relevant opinions. Furthermore, a number of sitting congressmembers of his own party have expressed that he should step down - which alone is a ruinous and public expression of a loss of confidence at the highest levels for Biden to win the campaign. It’s a millstone around his campaign’s neck, and even winning them back won’t remove it - the only thing that he can do to remove that weight from the Dem ticket is by stepping down himself.
Since the debate I haven’t spoken to a single left-leaning person who wants Biden to stay in or thinks he can win. Not one.
I was both until Congresscritters started coming out against him after the debate. I’m willing to accept that seeing him have a bad day - even a really fucking bad one - is not necessarily an indictment of his fitness to run a vigorous campaign, but I knew it was over once sitting Congressmembers were asking him publicly to step down. That’s… that’s lethal. Regardless of whether or not he’s fit to run a campaign.
I think it’s not impossible for him to win (though I was in full panic mode when Trump had an assassination attempt and I thought it might be a Dem behind the gun), but IF he does win, it will be wholly in spite of him being the candidate, and it will be an uphill fucking battle the whole way. He no longer advantages the Dem ticket - he’s a handicap.
Yeah I’ve also started trying to figure out, in the grand scheme of things, if there’s a scenario where replacing an incumbent would be more beneficial. Like, how bad would the polls have to get before the party stepped in and made an unfortunate but necessary decision? Losing all swing states? Losing Dem lean states? Losing solid blue states? Losing by double digits? Or maybe the candidate would have to get worse? What if he has a stroke in October? What if he dies in October? Is that how bad it would have to get?
The only silver lining I’m seeing right now is the 538 model calling for a Biden win (sorta), and it’s predicated on economic fundamentals which I just don’t think hold the line like they used to. I think the game has fundamentally changed, as has political typology, and that’s the reason he’s drowning in swing states.
I genuinely think a change this close to the election would be a terrible mistake. We need Joe now because he refused to step down for too long and the DNC refused to nominate someone else anyway. We’re committed
This close? The democratic convention hasn’t even happened yet. There’s still months to the election proper. Both France and the UK just held elections wherein the entire cycle lasted less than the time we have until election day still. And they had higher voter turnout than the US typically has.
Time is not the problem here. We do not need Biden. There are better candidates.
In my dream world, Biden is currently refusing to step down because he wants the RNC to focus on him, but he will hand the torch to Kamala in the next week or so before it is too late to change any ballots (Ohio and such).
And this is the difference between democrats and republicans. Even after getting his ass impeached twice, inciting insurrection, getting convicted for rape and felonies - voters and his party are firmly behind Trump.
Whereas Biden must step aside because he stuttered during debate. A lot of people - including those demanding peace in Ukraine and Middle East - are in for a solid pikachu face when they help elect literal Nazi because of these fucking purity tests
I don’t think this is about purity tests so much as popularity. People don’t want to vote for him. It doesn’t matter if he’s pure or not.
purity tests
Please explain how both parties having zero standards for their politicians will result in a net positive for the country.
Like, you know we can just run candidates who meet voters standards rather every four years demanding we throw our standards away. Right?
We’d get more votes, less Republicans in office, and more progress when Dems are in office.
What’s the downside?
Less pro-corproate moderates who disagree with the party platform?
You’re jealous that the fascists fall in line and don’t bark back.
One is democratic and dirty, the other is authoritarian. Which alignment practice do you want? I fucking don’t want the latter.
Yeah. It’s a genuinely pathetic trait for Democratic voters. Republicans think it’s hilarious and weak, and they’re correct. It is. It makes Democratic voters incredibly easy to troll and manipulate with rumor mills such as this thread.
I get ya and im not looking for biden to drop but I likely would not like the democrats as much if they did not resign way easier (franken) and question their members less critically. That being said it can be quite annoying as well.
Questioning and reevaluating is good, but context matters. No choice exists in a place apart from its surrounding context. That means that sometimes you have to recognize when the context is such that perfect becomes the enemy of good.
Not being able to do that is a huge flaw, and it’s a vulnerability that the wealthy are happily helping Republicans exploit right now.
3 democrats in my house and none of us think that.
I’ll vote for any D, but Biden should fuck off. The only thing that matters right now is to win. Biden’s fucked.
If the only thing that matters is to win, then Biden shouldn’t be the candidate.
That is the gist of my comment, yes.
👍
He heard you!
Meaningless if you can’t get them to agree on a different candidate.
This poll is irrelevant. Great for generating sensational articles, sure, but this question doesn’t matter. There’s only one poll question that means anything at this point:
If the 2024 US presidential election were held today, would you cast your vote for Joe Biden or Donald Trump?
Beating trump is more important than Joe Biden being president.
Especially when most of his time in office he wouldn’t stop talking about how powerless he is as president and how if anyone thought he could accomplish anything it just meant they’re ignorant.
So like, what’s the benefit of insisting it’s Biden when he’s not who voters want?
It just seems like a terrible risk for zero gain.
If what matters is the House and Senate, then we need a charismatic presidential candidate who helps Dems down ballot.
Biden has been the best president since Carter, and maybe before that.
Doesn’t matter. Only thing that matters is to win enough mindfucked undecideds in a few states. You must accept the reality that in our perverted system, substance is but one factor, and often ancillary to showmanship. Politics is not an intellectual endeavor. It’s mainly bullshit. That’s why trump is winning.
Actually, he accomplished quite a lot without having control of Congress and 6-3 activist SCOTUS.
And no, Manchin and Sinema didn’t give Democrats control of the Senate in 2021-2022 and changed parties since then.
Trump’s only success with full control of Congress was to pass the horrible tax bill.
Biden’s also extremely successful on the foreign policy. Not only he reunited NATO (Putin attacked Ukraine, because he was convinced there’s no way he can do it), but also got two additional members to join, who historically were neutral.
Biden’s major weakness is that he doesn’t broadcast his successes well and media doesn’t do that either for him. The only time he successfully did mention his accomplishments was during state of the union.
And no, Manchin and Sinema didn’t give Democrats control of the Senate in 2021-2022 and changed parties since then.
You forget that in the 2020 election no one thought we’d get the Senate and all of his campaign promises were made under the assumption that it would be a Republican majority Senate he’d have to get stuff thru.
That’s what Biden signed up for.
Having less Republicans in the Senate wouldn’t make that harder.
So unless your argument is Biden lied from day one, I don’t see how what you’re saying makes anything better.
Or why there’s any benefit to Biden over anyone else.
What point are you trying to make for why keeping Biden is a good idea?
And he still did quite well. I was preemptively responding to people who say Biden had a majority in Congress, that’s why I started with “And no,”
So unless your argument is Biden lied from day one, I don’t see how what you’re saying makes anything better.
And I’m saying he accomplished a lot despite that. Not everyone is as successful, Obama screwed up a single payer even though he had super majority.
And I’m saying he accomplished a lot despite that
And yet, you don’t seem capable of naming three things that Biden accomplished that any Dem Pres wouldn’t have known.
Weird…
Can’t wait to hear why this poll doesn’t matter but the one that said everyone else does the same or worse does matter. Don’t let me down lemmy centrists.
He needs to step down. He did much better work as president than many of his critics give him credit for, and his initial decision to run again, while in hindsight fucking ruinous, was operating off of conventional political wisdom. What he needs to do now is recognize that he’s lost the confidence of the party and the electorate, and step down, regardless of what he thinks about the sharpness of his faculties.
Democracy
in actioninaction.Gee, let’s see, a fascist who has guaranteed us dictatorial retribution, or Biden who has done a decent job despite an uncooperative congress and judiciary. Decisions, decisions. SMH.
I can tell you who of those two that I think will win the swing states in November, but you’d probably interpret this as political opppsition rather than resignation to the fate that the parties have already chosen for us.
I will agree that the US is in a perilous moment, alas.
