immuredanchorite [he/him, any]

definitely aimed at you, but also edifying for anyone who might think the USA was solidly on the side of good during the war. The US entered the war in 41, but they refused Stalin’s repeated requests to open a second front against Germany. They went to north africa first and then italy, waiting until the German eastern front had nearly collapsed before landing in Normandy. The US was essentially racing against the red army, trying to prevent the soviet union from liberating the entirety of europe under the banner of liberation for humankind. Once the US reached Germany and peace began, the US almost immediately formed NATO and appointed Nazi war criminals into its upper ranks while putting nazi war ciminals in charge of west germany. The yankee government is bad and always has been. throughout all of its history it only has made good choices when it has been dragged kicking and screaming.

There is no moral or legal justification for what Israel is doing right now. And the Palestinian people have a legal and moral right to resist their occupation by whatever means they decide, according to the UN charter and international law. Israel has turned Gaza into an open air concentration camp. It is one of the most densely populated place on earth and half of its population are children. Israel has laid a complete siege to Gaza for 17 years, sniping civilians and paramedics from towers and bombing it every few years. It forcibly relocated people there and it controls nearly everything about Gaza, its water, food and electricity. The conditions that are there are Israel’s fault, and Israel is openly committing an ethnic cleansing with US support. Israel blames Hamas, but Israel literally funded Hamas and tried its best to dismantle every other political organization in the Palestinian resistance. A leaked cabal to the US even said that they prefer Hamas win’s so that they can level collective punishment on all of Gaza by labeling it a hostile state.

I always hear people in the US musing how they couldn’t imagine sitting idly by while the Holocaust happened in WW2, but now I hear those same people doing mental gymnastics to excuse some of the most horrible atrocities live on tv.

When the US was founded it excluded about 94% of the people from within its borders from participating. Slavery existed on a mass scale throughout the world’s early, liberal (so-called) democracies, or often their economy was subsidized by slave labor abroad in their colonies. So if slavery didn’t exist within their immediate borders, it existed for the people their political & economic system subjugated. The idea that industrialization or “democracy” (not even sure how you are defining it, really) came into existence suddenly isn’t accurate, although there are revolutionary periods where social change came suddenly or breakthroughs in technology that occurred that reshaped social production. Those didn’t ever occur in a vacuum, and those discoveries were only able to affect the social system in so far as the social system was developed in such a way that they could be utilized… Often those big revolutionary changes in the social system were due to contradictions (compounding antagonistic relationships) within the social system itself becoming untenable. Trying to shoe-horn a somewhat obscure military “law” isn’t really going to explain how those changes occurred in a realistic way, because human society is much more complicated than that. You seem to want to reinvent the wheel here, you should try reading Marx, you might find it quite satisfying.

On your last point, the French Revolution was crushed ultimately, although the new social order retained changes that were beneficial to its new ruling class. But weapons themselves aren’t necessarily going to singularly shape the way in which social conflict resolves. Military technology is important to these developments, but ultimately a part of the larger social system that is always changing to either maintain itself or undergoing revolutionary change.

On your first point: Russia’s argument for why they have gone back on the security exchange for Ukraine’s nuclear disarmament is one of the very same arguments NATO uses when claiming that they never promised russia that they wouldn’t expand NATO east of Germany… The US either lies, and denies making the promise (they did) or they say that they promised the soviet union, which is not the same thing as Russia. Ukraine had a discontinuity in government in 2014: this is something they and the EU acknowledged officially during Ukraine’s application to join the EU… So idk if the government of Ukraine today is a distinct entity from the political formation in the immediate aftermath of the breakup of the Soviet Union, but that is what Ukraine and the EU have said as much.

Your first point in your second paragraph is something that could be said of Ukraine/NATO just as well. If anything, Ukraine has completely expended its reserve of weapons and now relies on a dwindling supply of old weapons from NATO… it may have just gone through a 3rd army in this last offensive… if anything a peace agreement would give NATO more time to arm Ukraine for another time when they decide to break the peace agreement… This isn’t based on speculation or a belief that Ukrainians are dishonest (unlike most speculation about Russia) because this is exactly what Angela Merkle said Minsk I & II were for: to use a peace deal to give NATO time to arm Ukraine for war… In order for peace to be achieved, both sides are going to have to accept some sort of good faith. If that can’t be done then more people will continue to have their lives thrown away.

idk, i think you missed the point of the things i linked. Two of them were the president of the US knowingly endorsing Yeltsin’s extralegal seizure of power (the second was his approval of Yeltsin and support after Yeltsin shelled Russian parliament for “going communist” … Those lost two article weren’t just to show the crimes of the USA, it was to show that the United States doesn’t give a fuck about democracy or russia, they gave more evidence of the US purposefully interfering in Soviet/Russian affairs in order to harm the Soviet/Russian people. Russia exists as it does today as a consequence of US foreign policy.

I still stand by what I said. The Soviet Union/Russia and the PRC have never come anywhere close to crimes of the US government. In my lifetime, the US has invaded and committed war crimes, or undermined democracy, in dozens of countries… The same cannot be said of any other country in the same timeframe

nope. sorry, but your motherland hasn’t been responsible for nearly as much death and destruction as the USA. You think that having a different president means that there is some sort of functional democratic process that represents the people of the US? That is farcical. Sure, it might suck to be in russia and you could go to jail for the things you have said, but Russia is what it is today because of the US’s antagonism towards the soviet union and russia in particular. Russia as it exists now is a consequence of US involvement.. The US ruling-class doesn’t care about democracy or freedom in Russia. The soviet union had its contradictions and problems, but a lot of the soviet union’s problems were the direct result of US meddling. The US has been quite open about that, from its invasion in 1918 to its arming of right-wing extremists with the goal of killing as many soviets as possible. But working people in the US never really decided any of that, because the US government does not have either the form or the function of a governance body that represents working-peoples interests.

Just because you live in the US now, and your life might be better now, doesn’t mean that the US government isn’t the worlds villain… It is no matter how nice you have it there. You can check in with the millions of dead in southeast asia, or the millions dead and displaced in the middle east.

But wasn’t Pakistan also thoroughly a US puppet at this point?

please, enlighten me, what is this utopia with which you speak of?

Under your definition, nearly every person is living under fascism. That is why it is meaningless

“The people of China deserve better. Good thing they have me to decide for them”

You either made up stuff, or never really addressed my points, so I am going to have to refer you to this insightful guide.

Listen, Fat! The US economy is doing better than any economy has every done in history, Jack. I call it Bidenomics. Get with the program.

What a useless definition. It doesn’t even consider the class character of fascism.

Authoritarian is a useless word. It literally could be used to describe any state.

China is actually highly democratic, but that would require expanding your bourgeois ideas about democracy and understanding how their system actually works in practice.

Misogyny is a problem everywhere and is in no way unique to fascism or any political economy, is predates capitalism by thousands of years. I agree it should be abolished, and that is what socialism aspires to do. But the idea that it can be eliminated by flipping a switch is idealist and unrealistic. There is plenty of truth to the critique that patriarchy still exists in China, but the PRC has maybe also done more than any other state to end some of the most oppressive forms of misogyny, for the most number of women, in history.

Propaganda about past grievances? That is too vague to be meaningful either. Some past grievances, like the Japanese war crimes in China, are legitimate. Others, like conspiracies about “judeo-bolshevism” are not. The term “propaganda” here is loaded too, like if the US government does its best to bury its history of chattel slavery (like it is doing in florida, for instance), would it be “propaganda about past grievances” to fight back against that? Would you tell the grandchild of a slave in Florida that by spreading information as wide as possible to the people about the crime of slavery it is somehow fascist? it makes no sense

i am pretty sure kids die every year because of that shit

You both quoted the same exact piece of text. You said they didn’t read the article but you didn’t even bother to read their comment?

You are calling a human being a bot, literally dehumanizing them, because they don’t have the same hatred of China as you. You should really check yourself. You are full of hatred and ideological poison. It is clear from your comment that you have limited literacy skills and understanding, you should check out some other perspectives and try to broaden your horizons. Here is one. This is also another incredible resource with a lot of essays and information with a different perspective

How is it a troll? This is my account. I didn’t hide I was from hexbear. If you can’t argue your point, it only underlines that you aren’t standing on principle. I hope you reflect more on your own understanding of politics today, and that it brings disquiet and growth. But unfortunately, you might just continue to coddle yourself with the belief that you are right and good, and the heckin’ marvel good guy’s United States are only looking out for the human rights of Muslims and the global south, gee whiz.

Wow, I mean, capitalism is bad and communism will be good. It isn’t a “hate boner” It is called having principles. If you think that the United States government, and the people who run it (the capitalist class) are committing serious crimes against humanity… why would you say “we” when you said “it’s absolutely disgusting what we’ve done.” You already identify with the crimes of your ruling class.

Those “examples” you gave of other human rights violations are spurious at best, US-ruling-class propaganda at worst. And you make several leaps in assuming that people are supportive of socialist states, or their struggle for self-determination against US empire, and support for specific instances of historic wrongs or mistakes. You clearly give “your own side” the benefit of the doubt or ignore it for the sake of attacking the US ruling-classes enemies. They aren’t your enemies, reallly. You assume that all labor in the DPRK is slave labor? That is laughable, and outright propaganda. All of the things you listed are nothing compared to what the US is doing right now, and what it has done in recent memory. It is August 7th, can you think of anything historically important that occurred the day before and the day after this date? You have a chance to admit you aren’t informed or passionate on the subject, and that you aren’t an expert. You can decide to change you mind and stop identifying so strongly with the worlds greatest oppressors. Please. Take this chance to come outside of your bubble and relearn.

The point is that your insistence that you are owed some sort of “real statement” on the lemmygrad community and dev’s support for “human rights violators” is farcical and partisan. It is a debate on communism vs capitalism because you are implying it by making a series of assumptions predicated on capitalists’ arguments. If you can’t see it, then you should spend some time reflecting on why you can’t see it. You also shouldn’t think that you are owed some sort of “real statement” if you can’t bother to investigate the question on your own.

I don’t understand. Do you have some sort of analysis that says that the United States does not impose its economic system on the world? I think the people of Vietnam, Korea, Russia, Iraq, Iran, Venezuela, Cuba, Brazil, Bolivia, Mexico, Haiti, Afghanistan, Laos, Grenada (to name only a few) would disagree. The system of capitalism is one in which the economic system revolves around profit. This system of profitability robs people of the value of their labor and imposes inequality through rent-seeking behavior in housing and food markets. lemmy.world identified their support for the US-led IMF and World Bank which impose political reform to their liking on overexploited nations in exchange for much-needed liquidity. (That is when the US does not install puppet governments that take out huge loans immediately, like Bolivia in 2019) The need for cash infusions is a direct result of the US world economic policy and its imposition, but then these loans cause a tremendous debt-burden and the cost of debt-service often outpaces any social programs in the affected countries. … Is there some other global super-power imposing this on the world? The UN has said that the cost of ending world hunger is merely $40 billion dollars annually. Yet the United States spends nearly $1 trillion on military spending annually. So they United States imposes its system on other countries, causing deprivation and social murder, yet the capacity to resolve the problem is entirely within their ability to do so? That sounds like it is intentional and something they are responsible for. Even if you claim that this is not “intentional” because you blame these systemic problems on individual choice or a lack of responsibility on the part of the wealthy, that doesn’t make it any less true. Capitalism was imposed on the world by the US and the result is social murder on a mass scale. The isn’t even considering the other human rights violations by the US, which I didn’t even bother citing them all.

Also, the US’s treatment of Black Americans, including extrajudicial killings by the state and torture, is most definitely the responsibility of the United States. I would like a real statement on the relationship to lemmy.world and abusers of human rights, not some PR nonsense that avoids the subject.

Please add a statement on the apparent connection between lemmy.world and their support to the US led NATO: The United States is the worst human rights violator in post-war history. The United States is responsible for over 300 million deaths directly and as the sole world superpower that has imposed its economic system on nearly the entire world, its system based upon deprivation for many (in exchange for luxury for a few) has led to the intentional starvation of 9 million people annually and imposition of poverty that has led to 5 million deaths annually from lack of medical care. On top of the 300 million the United States has killed directly, the 14 million lives taken annually by its world-wide imposed economic system has killed 448 million people through social murder since 1991 when its economic system was finally imposed nearly worldwide.

The United States, through its international secret police organization (CIA), also runs secret black sites throughout much of the world where people are detained without charge or trial and often tortured. The United States has openly admitted to running a torture program in breach of international conventions it has signed.

The United States also illegally invaded, and currently occupies 30% of Syria, controlling 90% of its petroleum. This illegal occupation violates Syrian sovereignty and occurred long before the conflict in Ukraine.

As the user wrote above, free speech is important, but human rights violations are just not acceptable.

Edit: I forgot to add, the United States has a system of racial apartheid and mass incarceration targeting ethnic minorities within its own borders. As a country representing about 4% of the worlds population, it contains more the 20% of the worlds prisoners. These prisoners are forced into labor for private corporations and often subject to solitary confinement (which the UN has called a method of torture) This system of mass incarceration and forced labor is unlike any other in the world, and is largely a holdover of the United States system of race-based chattel slavery, that was subsequently replaced by a codified racial caste system that denied Black Americans all human rights until a few decades ago.