• ElHexo [comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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    11 months ago

    Let’s lay out the events:

    • AfD travels to China
    • AfD says they’ll pursue a neutral foreign policy approach with China
    • AfD says their getting twenty percent of the vote has “sparked interest from China”
    • AfD says they’ll keep lines of communication open with China

    Headline: “China courts Germany’s far right populist AfD”

  • Wage_slave@lemmy.ml
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    11 months ago

    Is everything world news on lemmy about China? Like I’ve seen everything from crap articles saying China has a declining population like its a bad thing, or how the west looks like shit compared.

    Like, it’s nothing racist or offensive. Not to me at least. Just lots and lots of it being the primary topic in ways that I’m ain’t too familiar with.

    • SeaJ@lemm.ee
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      11 months ago

      .ml stands for Marxist-Leninist so for some reason there is generally a lot of praise for China which is closer to fascism than either of those idealogies.

    • tintory@lemm.eeOP
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      11 months ago

      China is very active player and driving up events, especially as they may be working with nazi wannabes in the German government

      • alternative_factor@kbin.social
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        11 months ago

        Tankies: China is a world power!! It drives so many world events!!
        Tankies: Nooo how dare China get in the press (good, bad, and neutral).

        They feel like any China coverage is inherently imperialist, even when its “China breaks fusion record”, that is meddling in China’s internal affairs to them.

        • AmberPrince@kbin.social
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          11 months ago

          For real. The tankie problem here is crazy. I can say something like China is trying to deny freedom of navigation of international waters on the South China Sea and somehow it becomes “BuT aMeRiCa”. I don’t get it.

          • reddwarf@feddit.nl
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            11 months ago

            I’ve been seeing this a lot from instances like hexbear and lemmygrad and my take is either cult members, paid trolls, brainwashed persons prone to pavlovian responses, or all of the above.

            I just wish that as a user I could block instances.

            • zephyreks@lemmy.ca
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              11 months ago

              This isn’t unique to the far-left, though. It’s a problem throughout the entire political spectrum.

              It’s rather dangerous to be creating echo chambers in a democracy, though. Democracy lives off of discourse between opposing views.

              • reddwarf@feddit.nl
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                11 months ago

                I would not call them far left tbh. There’s something else about them that irks me. It honestly feels more North Korean to me and that ain’t left by any stretch of the imagination. It seems to be more authoritarian minded.

    • Maoo [none/use name]@hexbear.net
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      11 months ago

      They’re a target of the US Empire and folks that can’t do media criticism gladly take the bait.

      The first rule of propaganda is emphasis, which is what you’re astutely picking up on. Why are stories about X and not A, B, C? When they’re about X, what context is emphasized, what is fact and what is allusion, who is interviewed and given the opportunity to comment and who is not? “World news” stories are very frequently just stenography of various think tanks, often ones that are more or less in agreement with one another.

      The entirety of China’s actions reported in this story are that China (exactly who isn’t stated, not even a group) invited an AfD delegation to meet with them. No source is cited, but maybe it’s Weidel. From this they create an entire narrative by retelling past articles about AfD’s foreign policy statements and ask one person to comment: “political scientist Wolfgang Schroeder from the University of Kassel”. They don’t mention that he’s also an SPD politician and associated with a government-funded research institute with a dodgy past. Maybe his takes are good, but why they asked him and not others isn’t stated, of course.

      This is just folks getting easily hoodwinked by a propaganda push. Same as folks were suddenly very concerned about WMDs in Iraq or the political powers in Afghanistan and so on. They weren’t, not organically - a network of think tanks, government stooges, etc all rally to provide jobs for these kinds of nerds to write these kinds of articles and have these kinds of takes. Several think tanks in Washington have converted from focusing on Syria or Iraq to focusing on Russia or China, as they know who butters their bread.

      Anyways that’s a long ramble in response to a simple question.

  • Fuckass [none/use name]@hexbear.net
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    11 months ago

    Well Lula, MBS, Macron, Bill Gates, the Taliban, and Olof also attracted the attention of Beijing. So this shouldn’t really be surprising

  • Gsus4@feddit.nl
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    11 months ago

    I’m loving this, AfD has been collaborating with the far-right party in our country, which accuses everyone else of being filthy commies, it would be a beautiful irony (in the unlikely event this were to be true) if they started talking up the CPC because russia can’t fund them anymore hahahaha

      • Gsus4@feddit.nl
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        11 months ago

        Meh, our democracy isn’t even that threatening to China (Taiwan’s is, it showcases a viable alternative to the CPC), they just had to leave us to our “contradictions”, they’d keep booming and we’d just keep buying their stuff while we eat each other alive, if China is doing this, they gotta be really desperate to turn Europe fascist again.

        • Tankiedesantski [he/him]@hexbear.net
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          11 months ago

          (Taiwan’s is, it showcases a viable alternative to the CPC)

          Throwing chairs at each other in the Legislative Yuan over who gets to be America’s most loyal running dog isn’t seen by anyone thing China as a viable alternative to governance.

          • Gsus4@feddit.nl
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            11 months ago

            It’s ok, Hu Jintao really didn’t mind being dragged off the stage like an idiot in a country where face is everything. China does settle fistfights in private, which does set a good example for the populace, ngl.

            PS: https://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/面子:

            面子是人際關係中的一种现象,在東方等级观念较强的社会(如中國等)特別受到重視。具体定义不明,基本上意味给社会中每个人的尊重[1][2]。如果不给人面子,即是拆穿別人的面具,可能会引起报复。如果有面子,一般会被认为是社会地位较高,更受人尊敬,然而面子不够大,可能是因为在社会、经济等方面地位低下。“面子”是“社会脸面”,代表着个人在人生历程中由成就和夸耀所获得的名声以及被社会重视的声誉[3]。「厚顏」俗稱「不要臉」。

            • UnicodeHamSic [he/him]@hexbear.net
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              11 months ago

              Did that sound like a thing that wasn’t wildly rascist when you wrote it? You can delete your comment. You simply can choose not to be rascist, it doesn’t cost you anything.

            • Tankiedesantski [he/him]@hexbear.net
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              11 months ago

              treated like an idiot in a country where face is everything.

              哇,你真懂中国文化。只有我们中国人不喜欢丢脸,不像那些外国政治者。他们热爱在大家面前受困窘。

      • UnicodeHamSic [he/him]@hexbear.net
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        11 months ago

        Democracy ™️ brought to you by Yum brands Inc. Is infact everyone’s enemy. The Chinese process is infact more democratic. When you look at the way funds are apportioned and how often the legislation passed reflects the will of the people it is undeniable they actually have more democratic input in their system than we do.

  • sunbeam60@lemmy.one
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    11 months ago

    It’s already a hexbear fest in here. There is zero point posting anything about China or Russia - every comment is trounced on by hexbears.

    Yes yes, if I didn’t want your opinion I should have stayed on Reddit.

    Yes, yes, you got here first.

    Yes, yes, I’m a brainwashed liberal.

    Yes, yes, you’re actually one of the oldest Lemmy communities but you’ve only recently started federating.

    Yes, yes, you’re seeing the light and can see through the western media’s bias and the rest of us are just mindless sheep.

    Yes, yes, China is great, Russia is fantastic, Ukraine should pursue for peace and roll over.

    Yes, yes, you never allowed downvoting so you’re used to just comment and that’s why there’s so many hexbears in here. And you’re definitely not Russian or CCP farmed trolls.

    Yes, yes, all those things are true.

    I’m sure I’m missing a few, but I’m pretty close to a hexbear “Bingo!” I think.

    • ThomasMuentzner [he/him, comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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      11 months ago

      You are on a good way , accept us as the new Cultural Hegemony … Its not like you didnt have a Cultural Hegemony Before, so you know the play
      It was China bad , its China good now! pretty fucking easy …

    • DivineChaos100 [none/use name]@hexbear.net
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      11 months ago

      Yes, yes, you’re seeing the light and can see through the western media’s bias and the rest of us are just mindless sheep.

      I mean people are invited every time to argue we aren’t right about this but they never do for some reason, idk why that is.

      • sunbeam60@lemmy.one
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        11 months ago

        If you didn’t want to be ridiculed for your insane opinions, you shouldn’t haven’t federated with the real world.

        • oregoncom [he/him]@hexbear.net
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          11 months ago

          You went on a long screed about how we keep making fun of you and telling you to go back to reddit. Clearly you’re the one being ridiculed for your insane opinions.

    • TheLepidopterists [he/him]@hexbear.net
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      11 months ago

      We used to allow downvoting, we just got rid of it to stop trolls from making multiple accounts to downvote every comment from people they disliked (specifically trans users were getting their comments brigaded like this) and it turned out to be a great choice because it encouraged discussion if you disagreed with someone.

      Also we’re definitely not “Russian or CCP farmed trolls” why would they have paid people to talk amongst themselves for three years? I mean I could really use the supplemental income so I wish, been putting off car repairs for months due to finances.

          • StalinForTime [comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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            11 months ago

            It’s closer to a nationalist oligarcy with the trappings a formal, liberal democracy. Ofc, at the end of the day the U$A is no more democratic in any deepy, normative or radical sense. But the state itself is ideologically more nationalist and has been pushing back against liberal social and economic views. You can see this in the conflicts recently between the executive and the central bank, as the latter has been one of the last convinced bastions of neoliberal economic orthodoxy.

            This also has to do with the fact that Russia’s ruling bourgeois class’s interests are more national in nature, as a result of their economic development since 1991, aggressive geopolitics from NATO, and the fact that they were forced by the state into emphasizing national interests once the Putin era began.

            Ofc it remains a capitalist shithole.

            • UnicodeHamSic [he/him]@hexbear.net
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              11 months ago

              That is what modern liberal democratic governments become. You analysis is good, I think you are just giving all parties involved too much of the benefit of thr doubt here

              • StalinForTime [comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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                11 months ago

                Sure. As a matter of historicaly development, we know, as Marxists, that liberal capitalist societies, whether they have the formal institutions of representative democracy or not, tend to develop due to the tendencies of economic development the social consequences of the later and the political conjunctures, into fascistic or fascist political regimes and societies. But these are tendencies, they aren’t metaphysical or mathematical necessities. Even if we always saw every liberal democracy transform into outright into fascism, this doesn’t make them the same thing. If you were actually under a fascist government you would quickly realise the difference.

                Fascism is partly characterized by it’s ideological and other superstructural features, but this is only a partial understanding. A fuller understanding notes that such states have only emerged in contexts of capitalist decay and crisis and act as a safety valve through which the capitalist class reestablishes political supremacy over the workings classes. However, I would point out that while capitalists are generally key parts of an any fascist state, the relationship between a powerful fascist state and individual enterprises (such as in Nazi Germany) does tip more and more towards the arbitrary power of the central executive government, to the point where they are more eager than capitalists to jeopardize profits for political objectives.

                I’m obviously not saying that liberals have not engaged in extreme racism, colonialism, and genocide. Actually, from a historical point of view, they have been the best at it. It also isn’t wrong to say that in many respects fascism is also charaterized by the turning inward, the domestic usage, of the coercive, violent means of political repression which are innovated and developed in colonies. As Aimé Cesaire pointed out, fascism is like imperialism turned inwards. Modern America often treats many people internally in a fascistic way, embodied by the prison-industrial complex, especially if you are a very active, radical activist, or were or are in the past or present a member of a revolutionary group like the Black Panthers, or more generally a poor immigrant, a racial minority interacting with cops, or many other scenarios. The American state, like the British and French states, their political and economic elites, have already partly fascicized, are undergoing the process. But I really don’t think we’re passed the point of the nature of the political regime changing sufficiently to call them all fully fascist states. After Ukraine, the USA is the closest.

                This is also why it is so weird and unnecessary to me when people just say that liberal democracy is the same thing as fascism. The fact that two things are linked or that one has tendencies that lead it to transform into, produce, be replaced by the other does not mean that they’re the same. Actually it implies the opposite, otherwise there would be no transformation to begin with. Take the Italian government. It is filled with realy, ideologically convinced fascists. But it does not find itself in a situation where, even as a unified coalition of Mussolini fans, they cannot actually find any means to exert fully fascist politics in defiance of the EU’s neoliberal economic agenda, nor NATO’s political agenda. Meloni does actually use the classic fascist technique of appealing to leftist sounding points. She recently went on Italian television and shit all over Macron and the French for enganging in neocolonialism against Françafrique, explaining the monetary system on tv and how most gold a child will mine in the period will end up in the French central bank. The difference with the Ukrainian government is that the material conditions of Ukraine allow, actually force, the government to fascicize beyond the confines of it’s own ideology and extend this to society more broadly and more radically. There is not even the pretence of liberal democracy in Ukraine amongst actual Ukrainians, let alone the Russophone Ukrainians or Russians of the east.

                We have different words for a reason: to refer to different things. In this case, different types of political regimes. A liberal political regime is different to fascist political regime. The transition might be gradual or appear relatively continuous, but so was the emergence of feudalism and capitalism.

                • Sickos [they/them, it/its]@hexbear.net
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                  11 months ago

                  This is also why it is so weird and unnecessary to me when people just say that liberal democracy is the same thing as fascism. The fact that two things are linked or that one has tendencies that lead it to transform into, produce, be replaced by the other does not mean that they’re the same. Actually it implies the opposite, otherwise there would be no transformation to begin with.

                  Would you prefer “liberal democracy nearly inevitably leads to fascism”? Stage 1 cancer and stage 4 cancer are both cancer.

    • PosadistInevitablity [he/him]@hexbear.net
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      11 months ago

      Simultaneously a bot farm and separated from any wider instances until very recently.

      Do you honestly believe that?

      Does it really make sense to you that China sets up self contained bot farms interacting with no one?

        • PosadistInevitablity [he/him]@hexbear.net
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          11 months ago

          Your conspiracy allows you to dismiss any leftist thought as non genuine.

          You will spend the rest of your life honestly believing an ideology that almost overthrew capitalism multiple times isn’t sincerely held by many people.

          As awful as capitalism is I don’t for a second question your genuine belief in it. That only seems to go one way

        • AcidSmiley [she/her]@hexbear.net
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          11 months ago

          That’s not a reply to what you’ve been asked, that’s you posting a link to a lemmy thread linking to a German state affiliated media article that has already been posted in the OP and that you probably haven’t even read beyond the title because it doesn’t have anything to do with your rant against the spectre of hexbear, or with the replies to it. It’s a pattern i’ve come to see a lot with you shitlibs, you make soypoint-1 soypoint-2 gestures towards what you believe to be an authoritative and trustworthy source and then it becomes obvious you haven’t engaged with the linked material in any way, you just make a feeble attempt to use it as a way to shut dissenters up. That kind of parlor trick probably even works on your brain that has been smoothed out to a marble-like texture by the reddit front page, Vaush streams, and a constantly growing coat of bioaccumulating microplastics, but come the fuck on, people have asked you a question. Is it that hard to answer it in good faith? I’ve read the article in question, i’ve actually read the replies from other hexbear users here and the article doesn’t work as a refutation of what they’ve said, in fact some of it actually supports the claims by hexbear users that the pro-imperialist stance of liberal left parties in the west has opened up an opportunity for right wingers to appropriate anti-western and pacifist stances in public to fish for votes of disgruntled apolitical and post-left people while they privately support the same murderous, genocidal expansionism as their more liberal counterparts, as evidenced by the breaking of disarmament treaties from the cold war and the increased funding of Azovite insurgents under Trump, the sudden swiveling towards an uncompromising pro-NATO stance of the fascists now governing Italy and countless other examples for the imperialism of parties politically comparable to Germany’s AfD. I wonder if it’s seriously beyond you to think that far or if you’re just too lazy to do any critical thinking. Is this redditor debatebro shit the only way you can engage in a conversation? I’m genuinely curious how the fuck that idea of us as a simultaneously Chinese and Russian botnet started to live rent-free in your head, or how you got the idea that a bunch of trans communists support modern-day Russia’s neoliberal regime that is as bad on queer rights as Florida will be 5 years from now, and what kind of absurd thought process is behind your far-fetched assumptions about us.

          • sunbeam60@lemmy.one
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            11 months ago

            Hey man, I’m genuinely sorry that I linked to the wrong thing. That’s a simple mistake, it seems my client (Voyager) acts a bit strange when pressing “Share”. Let me fix it.

            Edit: Nope can’t seem to get a durable link.

            What I wrote in another comment, which I was trying to link to, was:

            _I don’t think all of you are farmed trolls. My apologies if that’s how it was heard.

            I think many of you are farmed trolls, some of you are “useful idiots” to the troll farms, some of you have degenerated into a brigade of memes and a few of you are real people who genuinely hold idealistic opinions that couldn’t work in the real world. I doubt many of you belong in the last category._

            • ThomasMuentzner [he/him, comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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              11 months ago

              maybe we are Subreddit that was banned from reddit Because its oppinions are deemed “Dangerous” the Status Quo and the Class of People that profit from the Status Quo. ( The Oligarchy , the Passiv income classes) Maybe the History of Hexbear is actually if you look at it , the answer to all your questions

              Maybe Propaganda actually happens and Happend to You ! if you are iritated by hearing Pro China opinions ? How is this not a Testment of your Isolation … You have actually a great fucking opportunity on your hands , you can Learn

    • Redbolshevik2 [he/him]@hexbear.net
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      11 months ago

      Waaaaahhhhh only 99% of everything I interact with is geared toward my Liberal Anti-Communist sensibilities waaaaahhhhh waaaaahhhhh why can’t it be 100%

    • conductor@lemmy.ml
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      11 months ago

      It’s already a hexbear fest in here. There is zero point posting anything about China or Russia - every comment is trounced on by hexbears

      Lmaooo go cry about it I guess

    • eatmyass [he/him]@hexbear.net
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      11 months ago

      Hey, I don’t have anything new to say, just want to join the pile-on. Sorry you can’t have your liberal echo chamber, and sorry that most of the world actually prefers China to the great satan and its western demons. If you didn’t want to be ridiculed for your insane opinions though you really shouldn’t be federated with the real world though

    • ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆@lemmy.ml
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      11 months ago

      Libs crying that they can’t just pile on people who disagree with them will never stop being funny. These trolls can’t actually make any coherent arguments to support their positions and simply regurgitate a handful of tropes they memorized. All of a sudden this tactic doesn’t work anymore and y’all having a meltdown.

      And here’s a bingo card for you lot